http://www.detiknews.com/index.php/deti ... idkanal/10
Bakal makin banyak nih yang join ke 'dark side'
Cheers
Pertamax mau dinaikan jadi Rp 5000/ liter
Moderators: Ryan Steele, sh00t, r12qiSonH4ji, avantgardebronze, akbarfit
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Joe_Black
- Member of Junior Mechanic
- Posts: 35
- Joined: Thu Mar 24, 2005 9:19
Pertamax mau dinaikan jadi Rp 5000/ liter
Ada berita dari detik.com bahwa Pertamax bakal dinaikkan menjadi Rp 5000/liter.
http://www.detiknews.com/index.php/deti ... idkanal/10
Bakal makin banyak nih yang join ke 'dark side'
Cheers
http://www.detiknews.com/index.php/deti ... idkanal/10
Bakal makin banyak nih yang join ke 'dark side'
Cheers
-
szli
- New Member of Mechanic Engineer
- Posts: 917
- Joined: Mon Jun 07, 2004 2:38
Benar ! Dan bisa saja terjadi. Banyak yang bilang di media massa bahwa harga minyak lagi tren naik, dan berapa bulan lagi bisa sentuh $ 100 per barrel !
IF yes, sudah pasti deh naik ke 5000. Artinya sekali isi 50 liter saja sudah habis 250,000 !! Sakit banget kantongnya ! Bisa beli 4 liter oli bagus tuh segitu ! 2 kali isi bensin sudah setengah juta !
Sudah lah ! Turn over to the dark side ! Banyak manfaatnya. Dapat proteksi banyak stormtroopers, bisa minum ama Lord Vader yang keren itu, dan bisa sisa banyak uang untuk terserah kita !
Bayangkan, kalau Premium, sekali isi cuman 120,000. Orang barat beda 15-20% saja sudah lari ke low octane bensin. Apalagi di Indo kalau bedanya double !
Sudah baca Autobild ? Tuh di laporkan mutu Pertamax Plus mengerikan ! Ada macam gum yang bisa sumbatkan mesin kita !
Ya sudah. Mau naik naik tajam sekaligus deh ! Supaya saya tidak lagi pikirkan mau balik ke Pertamax atau tidak. Supaya I am forever a Dark Jedi !
Kalau Bung Joe Black, hematnya sudah jutaan per bulan kan ?
IF yes, sudah pasti deh naik ke 5000. Artinya sekali isi 50 liter saja sudah habis 250,000 !! Sakit banget kantongnya ! Bisa beli 4 liter oli bagus tuh segitu ! 2 kali isi bensin sudah setengah juta !
Sudah lah ! Turn over to the dark side ! Banyak manfaatnya. Dapat proteksi banyak stormtroopers, bisa minum ama Lord Vader yang keren itu, dan bisa sisa banyak uang untuk terserah kita !
Bayangkan, kalau Premium, sekali isi cuman 120,000. Orang barat beda 15-20% saja sudah lari ke low octane bensin. Apalagi di Indo kalau bedanya double !
Sudah baca Autobild ? Tuh di laporkan mutu Pertamax Plus mengerikan ! Ada macam gum yang bisa sumbatkan mesin kita !
Ya sudah. Mau naik naik tajam sekaligus deh ! Supaya saya tidak lagi pikirkan mau balik ke Pertamax atau tidak. Supaya I am forever a Dark Jedi !
Kalau Bung Joe Black, hematnya sudah jutaan per bulan kan ?
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szli
- New Member of Mechanic Engineer
- Posts: 917
- Joined: Mon Jun 07, 2004 2:38
Saya cantumkan artikel ini lagi untuk yang belum baca. A kind of beginners guide to entering the dark, moist world of the Dark Side !
Why use premium gas when regular will do?
By James R. Healey, USA TODAY
Marti Mayne once fueled her low-octane Subaru with high-octane gas. Not now. Premium-gas prices "went sky high, and now I just use low grade" to motor around Yarmouth, Maine, where she runs a marketing business.
Cost differences between regular and premium is as plain as, well, the sign at the station, like this one in Chicago.
By Scott Olson, Getty Images
When prices dropped earlier this year, she stuck with cheaper fuel because "I don't think that my car runs any differently on high, medium or lower grade."
She's right. Engines designed for regular fuel don't improve on premium and sometimes run worse. And today's engines designed for premium run fine on regular, too, their makers say, though power declines slightly. (Background: About Octane ratings)
But premium lovers are passionate. "I would simply curtail driving rather than switch grades," says Bill Teater of Mount Vernon, Ohio, who puts high-test in both his Cadillacs, though only one recommends it. He's sure both the DeVille and the Escalade run rough and lack pep on regular.
Prejudice and preference aside, engineers, scientists and the federal government say there's little need for premium.
When fuel's cheap, motorists are willing to pay 20 cents or so more for premium. But as gas prices sneak back up, the mental wrangle begins anew over whether it's OK to burn cheaper, regular-grade gas.
AS PRICES RISE, CONSUMERS
SHUN PREMIUM GAS
Average price of a gallon of premium gasoline:
1993 $1.30
1999 $1.36
2002 $1.58
20031 $1.80
Premium gas share of all gas sold:
1993 19.9%
1999 16.8%
2002 13.5%
2003 12.1%
Sources: Energy Information Administration, American Petroleum Institute
The answer almost always is yes.
"I personally use regular even though my owner's manual says you'll get better performance with premium," says Lewis Gibbs, consulting engineer and 45-year veteran at Chevron oil company. He's chairman of Technical Committee 7 on Fuels, part of the Society of Automotive Engineers (SAE) Fuels & Lubricants Council. Gibbs knows gas.
"My wife runs midgrade (89 octane) in her car, and it's a turbocharged engine" meant for 91-octane premium, he says.
Premium  gasoline having an octane rating 91 or higher  is just 12.1% of sales this year, down from 13.5% in 2002, when it was 22 cents a gallon cheaper, and well below the modern high of 20.3% in 1994, when it was 49 cents cheaper, according to industry and government data. Despite the allure of premium, once they abandon it, most motorists don't come back, the data suggest.
For every dime increase in the price, sales of premium gas drop 1%, Bob Johnson, general manager of gasoline and environmental services for the 7-Eleven chain, figures, based on data back to 1998.
The main advantage of premium-grade gas is that it allows automakers to advertise a few more horsepower by designing and tuning engines to take advantage of premium's anti-knock properties. But auto engineers generally agree that if you use regular in a premium engine, the power loss is so slight, most drivers can't tell.
"I go back and forth, and I'm hard-pressed to notice" whether there's regular or premium in the tank, says Jeff Jetter, principal chemist at Honda Research and Development Americas. He drives an Acura designed for premium.
Import brands, especially, use premium fuel to distinguish their upmarket models. Most Toyotas, for instance, are designed to run on regular or midgrade, while the automaker's Lexus luxury brand prefers premium. Same with Honda and its Acura luxury line.
"Generally, the more expensive the vehicle, the higher the expectation for performance and the more the customer is willing to pay for fuel," says Pete Haidos, head of product planning for Nissan in the USA.
Actually, the price debate is nearly worthless. At 20 cents more for premium, pumping 20 gallons of it instead of regular would cost $4 more. Annually, that's a difference of $171 for a vehicle that averages 14 miles per gallon  as some big sport-utility vehicles do  and is driven 12,000 miles a year.
Gasoline retailers and refiners like high-test because it's more profitable than regular-grade gas is. The retailer paid about 8 cents more for the premium you pay 20 cents more for  though that margin can swing wildly. Refiners make a few cents a gallon more on premium than on regular when they sell to wholesale distributors.
As long as it's clean
Profit is meaningless to the modern engine, which, regardless of what's specified in the owner's manual, hardly cares what you use  as long as it's clean.
Today's engines use highly evolved versions of a device called a knock sensor to adjust settings automatically for low-octane gas. And more engine control computers have adequate memory to allow separate sets of instructions for various octanes. The engine control computers keep pushing to maximize performance on whatever grade of fuel is used.
Extreme pressure inside the cylinders causes knock, which is the sound of the pistons literally rattling inside the cylinders. Too much too long can damage the engine. A little now and then won't.
The only modern engines that should really need premium are those with superchargers, which force-feed fuel into the cylinders. "You're driving along and just tramp the gas and the knock sensor cannot sense the knock fast enough in some cases," because the supercharger boosts pressure so fast, says Bob Furey, chemist and fuels specialist at General Motors.
Burning regular when the owner's manual specifies premium won't void the warranty, nor damage the engine, even the most finicky automakers say. "You're giving up perhaps just a little bit of performance that a customer wouldn't really even notice, it's so slight," says Furey.
Automakers say they don't test premium engines on regular to check the difference, but some auto engineers estimate that power declines roughly 5%.
"We can't guarantee the vehicle will perform as specified if other than premium fuel is used," says Mercedes-Benz spokeswoman Michelle Murad. All U.S. Mercedes engines specify premium.
All Porsche engines are designed for premium, too, but it's not available everywhere. "Our cars must be able to drive all over the world, and so we are able to run on regular," says Jakob Neusser, director of powertrain development at Porsche's research and development center in Weissach, Germany. "You don't have to feel that a mechanical problem or anything else will happen" using regular gas, even in the highest-performance, regular-production Porsches.
Premium, in fact, sometimes is worse fuel than regular. It resists knock because it's harder to ignite than lower-octane fuels. As a result, some engines won't start as quickly or run as smoothly on premium, notes Gibbs, the SAE fuel expert.
High-test does have a potential fuel economy benefit. It is slightly denser than lower-octane gas, meaning there's a little more energy in a gallon. But the small difference is hard to measure in real-world use, and that same density can contribute to undesirable buildup of waste products inside the engine.
No data show that engines designed strictly for regular run better or longer on premium.
The Federal Trade Commission, in a consumer notice, emphasizes: "(I)n most cases, using a higher-octane gasoline than your owner's manual recommends offers absolutely no benefit. It won't make your car perform better, go faster, get better mileage or run cleaner."
There is "no way of taking advantage of premium in a regular-grade car," says Furey.
"There is no gain. You're wasting money," insists Jim Blenkarn, in charge of powertrains at Nissan in the USA.
"No customer should ever be deluded into thinking there's any value in buying a higher grade of octane than we specify," says Toyota's Paul Williamsen, technical expert and trainer.
But premium retains a mystique.
Even Mayne, the sensible Subaru owner who has switched to regular, says she'll buy premium when her neighborhood station has a special price. "It's my perception that I might get better gas mileage or that it might be better for my engine," she says.
"I would stop driving rather than use a lower grade of gasoline," says Andrew Martschenko of Boston, who drives a 2003 Nissan Maxima. Nissan says premium is "recommended" for that engine  automaker code for regular is OK, but you'll only get the advertised power on premium.
If the price difference between regular and premium grew to $1, Martschenko says, "Then I might consider trading down" to regular.
Guilt plays a part
Some people feel almost guilty, as if they are abusing their cars, when they don't burn premium, says gasoline retailer Jay Ricker, president of Ricker Oil of Anderson, Ind., which operates 28 stations. "They go all the way down to 87 (octane), but maybe every fourth tank they put in the good stuff."
Sam Turner has seen the appeal, too. He's president of Favorite Markets of Dalton, Ga., which operates 139 outlets in three states.
He recalls visiting one of his stations during a price war with a nearby station, which had cut the price of premium to just 4 cents more than regular, instead of the usual 20-cent difference.
"A customer was waiting and asked me if I was going to match the guy across the street. I said, 'Yeah,' and he said, 'Good. For 4 cents, I'm gonna buy super.' "
Contributing: Barbara Hansen
Why use premium gas when regular will do?
By James R. Healey, USA TODAY
Marti Mayne once fueled her low-octane Subaru with high-octane gas. Not now. Premium-gas prices "went sky high, and now I just use low grade" to motor around Yarmouth, Maine, where she runs a marketing business.
Cost differences between regular and premium is as plain as, well, the sign at the station, like this one in Chicago.
By Scott Olson, Getty Images
When prices dropped earlier this year, she stuck with cheaper fuel because "I don't think that my car runs any differently on high, medium or lower grade."
She's right. Engines designed for regular fuel don't improve on premium and sometimes run worse. And today's engines designed for premium run fine on regular, too, their makers say, though power declines slightly. (Background: About Octane ratings)
But premium lovers are passionate. "I would simply curtail driving rather than switch grades," says Bill Teater of Mount Vernon, Ohio, who puts high-test in both his Cadillacs, though only one recommends it. He's sure both the DeVille and the Escalade run rough and lack pep on regular.
Prejudice and preference aside, engineers, scientists and the federal government say there's little need for premium.
When fuel's cheap, motorists are willing to pay 20 cents or so more for premium. But as gas prices sneak back up, the mental wrangle begins anew over whether it's OK to burn cheaper, regular-grade gas.
AS PRICES RISE, CONSUMERS
SHUN PREMIUM GAS
Average price of a gallon of premium gasoline:
1993 $1.30
1999 $1.36
2002 $1.58
20031 $1.80
Premium gas share of all gas sold:
1993 19.9%
1999 16.8%
2002 13.5%
2003 12.1%
Sources: Energy Information Administration, American Petroleum Institute
The answer almost always is yes.
"I personally use regular even though my owner's manual says you'll get better performance with premium," says Lewis Gibbs, consulting engineer and 45-year veteran at Chevron oil company. He's chairman of Technical Committee 7 on Fuels, part of the Society of Automotive Engineers (SAE) Fuels & Lubricants Council. Gibbs knows gas.
"My wife runs midgrade (89 octane) in her car, and it's a turbocharged engine" meant for 91-octane premium, he says.
Premium  gasoline having an octane rating 91 or higher  is just 12.1% of sales this year, down from 13.5% in 2002, when it was 22 cents a gallon cheaper, and well below the modern high of 20.3% in 1994, when it was 49 cents cheaper, according to industry and government data. Despite the allure of premium, once they abandon it, most motorists don't come back, the data suggest.
For every dime increase in the price, sales of premium gas drop 1%, Bob Johnson, general manager of gasoline and environmental services for the 7-Eleven chain, figures, based on data back to 1998.
The main advantage of premium-grade gas is that it allows automakers to advertise a few more horsepower by designing and tuning engines to take advantage of premium's anti-knock properties. But auto engineers generally agree that if you use regular in a premium engine, the power loss is so slight, most drivers can't tell.
"I go back and forth, and I'm hard-pressed to notice" whether there's regular or premium in the tank, says Jeff Jetter, principal chemist at Honda Research and Development Americas. He drives an Acura designed for premium.
Import brands, especially, use premium fuel to distinguish their upmarket models. Most Toyotas, for instance, are designed to run on regular or midgrade, while the automaker's Lexus luxury brand prefers premium. Same with Honda and its Acura luxury line.
"Generally, the more expensive the vehicle, the higher the expectation for performance and the more the customer is willing to pay for fuel," says Pete Haidos, head of product planning for Nissan in the USA.
Actually, the price debate is nearly worthless. At 20 cents more for premium, pumping 20 gallons of it instead of regular would cost $4 more. Annually, that's a difference of $171 for a vehicle that averages 14 miles per gallon  as some big sport-utility vehicles do  and is driven 12,000 miles a year.
Gasoline retailers and refiners like high-test because it's more profitable than regular-grade gas is. The retailer paid about 8 cents more for the premium you pay 20 cents more for  though that margin can swing wildly. Refiners make a few cents a gallon more on premium than on regular when they sell to wholesale distributors.
As long as it's clean
Profit is meaningless to the modern engine, which, regardless of what's specified in the owner's manual, hardly cares what you use  as long as it's clean.
Today's engines use highly evolved versions of a device called a knock sensor to adjust settings automatically for low-octane gas. And more engine control computers have adequate memory to allow separate sets of instructions for various octanes. The engine control computers keep pushing to maximize performance on whatever grade of fuel is used.
Extreme pressure inside the cylinders causes knock, which is the sound of the pistons literally rattling inside the cylinders. Too much too long can damage the engine. A little now and then won't.
The only modern engines that should really need premium are those with superchargers, which force-feed fuel into the cylinders. "You're driving along and just tramp the gas and the knock sensor cannot sense the knock fast enough in some cases," because the supercharger boosts pressure so fast, says Bob Furey, chemist and fuels specialist at General Motors.
Burning regular when the owner's manual specifies premium won't void the warranty, nor damage the engine, even the most finicky automakers say. "You're giving up perhaps just a little bit of performance that a customer wouldn't really even notice, it's so slight," says Furey.
Automakers say they don't test premium engines on regular to check the difference, but some auto engineers estimate that power declines roughly 5%.
"We can't guarantee the vehicle will perform as specified if other than premium fuel is used," says Mercedes-Benz spokeswoman Michelle Murad. All U.S. Mercedes engines specify premium.
All Porsche engines are designed for premium, too, but it's not available everywhere. "Our cars must be able to drive all over the world, and so we are able to run on regular," says Jakob Neusser, director of powertrain development at Porsche's research and development center in Weissach, Germany. "You don't have to feel that a mechanical problem or anything else will happen" using regular gas, even in the highest-performance, regular-production Porsches.
Premium, in fact, sometimes is worse fuel than regular. It resists knock because it's harder to ignite than lower-octane fuels. As a result, some engines won't start as quickly or run as smoothly on premium, notes Gibbs, the SAE fuel expert.
High-test does have a potential fuel economy benefit. It is slightly denser than lower-octane gas, meaning there's a little more energy in a gallon. But the small difference is hard to measure in real-world use, and that same density can contribute to undesirable buildup of waste products inside the engine.
No data show that engines designed strictly for regular run better or longer on premium.
The Federal Trade Commission, in a consumer notice, emphasizes: "(I)n most cases, using a higher-octane gasoline than your owner's manual recommends offers absolutely no benefit. It won't make your car perform better, go faster, get better mileage or run cleaner."
There is "no way of taking advantage of premium in a regular-grade car," says Furey.
"There is no gain. You're wasting money," insists Jim Blenkarn, in charge of powertrains at Nissan in the USA.
"No customer should ever be deluded into thinking there's any value in buying a higher grade of octane than we specify," says Toyota's Paul Williamsen, technical expert and trainer.
But premium retains a mystique.
Even Mayne, the sensible Subaru owner who has switched to regular, says she'll buy premium when her neighborhood station has a special price. "It's my perception that I might get better gas mileage or that it might be better for my engine," she says.
"I would stop driving rather than use a lower grade of gasoline," says Andrew Martschenko of Boston, who drives a 2003 Nissan Maxima. Nissan says premium is "recommended" for that engine  automaker code for regular is OK, but you'll only get the advertised power on premium.
If the price difference between regular and premium grew to $1, Martschenko says, "Then I might consider trading down" to regular.
Guilt plays a part
Some people feel almost guilty, as if they are abusing their cars, when they don't burn premium, says gasoline retailer Jay Ricker, president of Ricker Oil of Anderson, Ind., which operates 28 stations. "They go all the way down to 87 (octane), but maybe every fourth tank they put in the good stuff."
Sam Turner has seen the appeal, too. He's president of Favorite Markets of Dalton, Ga., which operates 139 outlets in three states.
He recalls visiting one of his stations during a price war with a nearby station, which had cut the price of premium to just 4 cents more than regular, instead of the usual 20-cent difference.
"A customer was waiting and asked me if I was going to match the guy across the street. I said, 'Yeah,' and he said, 'Good. For 4 cents, I'm gonna buy super.' "
Contributing: Barbara Hansen
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Joe_Black
- Member of Junior Mechanic
- Posts: 35
- Joined: Thu Mar 24, 2005 9:19
He..he.. he.. lumayan lah...
Aku sekarang sekali ngisi Rp 90,000 (Premium - 37.5 ltr), tiap 3-4 hari sekali (sebulan 7-9 x ).
Bedanya sekali isi = 37,5 x Rp 1,600 = Rp 60,000.
Kisaran penghematan tiap bulan Rp 420,000 - 540.000
Kalo di rata2 pertahunnya : 480,000 x 12 = 5,76 jt.
Ini hitungan kasar sih, belum dimasukkan faktor lebih borosnya pake premium dibanding pertamax. Tapi lumayan buat budget liburan keluarga ke Bali...
Aku sekarang sekali ngisi Rp 90,000 (Premium - 37.5 ltr), tiap 3-4 hari sekali (sebulan 7-9 x ).
Bedanya sekali isi = 37,5 x Rp 1,600 = Rp 60,000.
Kisaran penghematan tiap bulan Rp 420,000 - 540.000
Kalo di rata2 pertahunnya : 480,000 x 12 = 5,76 jt.
Ini hitungan kasar sih, belum dimasukkan faktor lebih borosnya pake premium dibanding pertamax. Tapi lumayan buat budget liburan keluarga ke Bali...
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mpoezz
- Member of Mechanic Engineer
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- Joined: Thu Jul 22, 2004 14:10
- Location: Kingdom of Heaven
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handling
- Member of Mechanic Engineer
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- Joined: Thu Jul 29, 2004 11:09
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mpoezz
- Member of Mechanic Engineer
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- Joined: Thu Jul 22, 2004 14:10
- Location: Kingdom of Heaven
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mpoezz
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- Joined: Thu Jul 22, 2004 14:10
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conan
- Member of Mechanic Engineer
- Posts: 2961
- Joined: Tue Jul 13, 2004 17:34
Bung Szli, Anda hanya menganggap harga Pertamax yang naik, dan ingin harga premium tetap, berarti Anda walaupun tergolong mampu, adalah contoh subsidi BBM salah sasaran.
Orang yang mampu memiliki mobil lebih dari satu, menurutku tidak sepatutnya mendapat subsidi BBM hanya supaya ia bisa menghemat uang beberapa juta per tahun, yang mending jika disumbangkan ke panti asuhan/fakir miskin, tapi kalau dipakai hanya untuk berlibur/shopping?
Sementara orang negara lain sudah mulai menggunakan BBM secara lebih efisien, karena untuk jangka panjang harga minyak dunia akan terus naik.
Sementara penduduk miskin menggunakan BBM yaitu minyak tanah hanya untuk memasak pangan, dan mereka berbagi menggunakan solar dengan menaiki kendaraan umum.
All in all, yang terpenting adalah bukan pindah ke BBM yang lebihhanya supaya tetap bisa memakai mobil dan fuel like it's granted. Tapi mulailah mengatur jadwal perjalanan kita menjadi lebih efisien, dan mulai menggunakan sarana transportasi umum sebisanya, agar minyak dunia ini tidak habis sebelum waktunya hanya karena banyak mobil hanya ditumpangi satu orang ke mana2.
Dan bung Szli, artikel yang Anda pasang di atas tidak bisa menggambarkan keadaan di sini, karena 'REGULAR' gasoline di negara2 lain, mutunya jauh, jauh di atas 'premium' di sini.
Orang yang mampu memiliki mobil lebih dari satu, menurutku tidak sepatutnya mendapat subsidi BBM hanya supaya ia bisa menghemat uang beberapa juta per tahun, yang mending jika disumbangkan ke panti asuhan/fakir miskin, tapi kalau dipakai hanya untuk berlibur/shopping?
Sementara orang negara lain sudah mulai menggunakan BBM secara lebih efisien, karena untuk jangka panjang harga minyak dunia akan terus naik.
Sementara penduduk miskin menggunakan BBM yaitu minyak tanah hanya untuk memasak pangan, dan mereka berbagi menggunakan solar dengan menaiki kendaraan umum.
All in all, yang terpenting adalah bukan pindah ke BBM yang lebihhanya supaya tetap bisa memakai mobil dan fuel like it's granted. Tapi mulailah mengatur jadwal perjalanan kita menjadi lebih efisien, dan mulai menggunakan sarana transportasi umum sebisanya, agar minyak dunia ini tidak habis sebelum waktunya hanya karena banyak mobil hanya ditumpangi satu orang ke mana2.
Oh yeah? Bung Szli, bisa Anda bayangkan hasilnya jika mereka mengetes premium?szli wrote:Sudah baca Autobild ? Tuh di laporkan mutu Pertamax Plus mengerikan ! Ada macam gum yang bisa sumbatkan mesin kita !
Dan bung Szli, artikel yang Anda pasang di atas tidak bisa menggambarkan keadaan di sini, karena 'REGULAR' gasoline di negara2 lain, mutunya jauh, jauh di atas 'premium' di sini.
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mpoezz
- Member of Mechanic Engineer
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szli
- New Member of Mechanic Engineer
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Bung Conan, jangan say like that lah ! Kalau saya, dari dulu mottonya " I can do anything so long as its legal, dan tidak merugikan orang lain ".
Saya pakai Premium, siapa rugi ? Dan Juan Felix Tampubolon saja tidak bisa nuntut saya ! Saya pakai Premium kan its my right.
Salah sasaran ke saya juga tidak kenapa. At least selisih uangnya saya bisa untuk my kid. Dari pada orang Pertamina yang makan uang terus.
And pls don't say saya terlalu " enak " bung Conan. Jangan lupa, my car is only 200 jutaan. Banding yang lain, its nothing. Its still a middle class car.
Tunggu nanti saya mampu beli Elgrand, baru deh saya seharusnya pakai Pertamax.
I am just a middle class guy with middle class tastes. Jadi saya pantas deh minum Premium. Leave the Pertamaxes for the rich guys who drive 400 + juta cars.
Saya pakai Premium, siapa rugi ? Dan Juan Felix Tampubolon saja tidak bisa nuntut saya ! Saya pakai Premium kan its my right.
Salah sasaran ke saya juga tidak kenapa. At least selisih uangnya saya bisa untuk my kid. Dari pada orang Pertamina yang makan uang terus.
And pls don't say saya terlalu " enak " bung Conan. Jangan lupa, my car is only 200 jutaan. Banding yang lain, its nothing. Its still a middle class car.
Tunggu nanti saya mampu beli Elgrand, baru deh saya seharusnya pakai Pertamax.
I am just a middle class guy with middle class tastes. Jadi saya pantas deh minum Premium. Leave the Pertamaxes for the rich guys who drive 400 + juta cars.
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conan
- Member of Mechanic Engineer
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Joe_Black
- Member of Junior Mechanic
- Posts: 35
- Joined: Thu Mar 24, 2005 9:19
Bung Conan,
Saya pikir kalo harga pertamax naik dalam waktu dekat ini (range 6-12 bln), harga premium tidak ikutan naik. Pertamax dan P+ bisa dinaikkan harganya tanpa menunggu persetujuan DPR dan tidak banyak menimbulkan gejolak di masyarakat.
Jadi itu bukan keinginan kita agar Premium tidak ikutan naik. Premium naik bukan hanya keputusan ekonomi, tapi juga politik sih...
Saya pikir kalo harga pertamax naik dalam waktu dekat ini (range 6-12 bln), harga premium tidak ikutan naik. Pertamax dan P+ bisa dinaikkan harganya tanpa menunggu persetujuan DPR dan tidak banyak menimbulkan gejolak di masyarakat.
Jadi itu bukan keinginan kita agar Premium tidak ikutan naik. Premium naik bukan hanya keputusan ekonomi, tapi juga politik sih...
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Joe_Black
- Member of Junior Mechanic
- Posts: 35
- Joined: Thu Mar 24, 2005 9:19
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szli
- New Member of Mechanic Engineer
- Posts: 917
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Benar. SBY berani naikan Premium lagi ? Mau cari penyakit dia !
Kalau regular di Amrik RONnya 87. Jadi ngak bedah jauh banget ama Premium kita.
Benar yang di sini di oplos, lebih buruk. Tapi the main issue is Americans are using gas lower octane than recommended.
Maybe one day I will try Pertamax again and see the difference. Sudah lama ngak isi Pertamax saya. Penasaran juga sekarang feelingnya seperti apa.
Kalau regular di Amrik RONnya 87. Jadi ngak bedah jauh banget ama Premium kita.
Benar yang di sini di oplos, lebih buruk. Tapi the main issue is Americans are using gas lower octane than recommended.
Maybe one day I will try Pertamax again and see the difference. Sudah lama ngak isi Pertamax saya. Penasaran juga sekarang feelingnya seperti apa.
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conan
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Anda benar, bung Joe_Black, dan aku juga menyadari hal itu.Joe_Black wrote:Bung Conan,
Jadi itu bukan keinginan kita agar Premium tidak ikutan naik. Premium naik bukan hanya keputusan ekonomi, tapi juga politik sih...
Kekuatiranku adalah, kita penduduk negara ini menjadi tidak 'fleksibel' dan dimanjakan oleh harga BBM yang seakan-akan 'konstan', padahal kita tahu sendiri bahwa harga minyak dunia selalu berfluktuasi.
Contoh, harga premium dulu Rp 1810 ketika harga minyak dunia masih $24 per barrel.
Ketika harga minyak dunia mencapai $ 40 per barrel, kita masih menikmati harga premium yang 'konstan' pada Rp 1810, padahal ketidakseimbangan mulai terjadi (baca : subsidi membengkak).
Kini harga premium 'konstan' Rp 2400, padahal harga minyak dunia berfluktuasi pada $51-58 per barrel.
Mengapa aku selalu menekankan pentingnya 'fleksibilitas' penduduk dalam menghadapi harga BBM? Karena hal ini sangat penting jika suatu hari kebijaksanaan subsidi dan harga tetap BBM tidak lagi diterapkan. Dan jika fluktuasi harga minyak dunia semakin 'liar', beban negara akan semakin berat.
Pada masa seperti itu (fluktuasi harga minyak dunia sangat besar), 'fleksibilitas' ini berperan penting dalam membantu menstabilkan harga BBM, walaupun harga BBM sudah sepenuhnya mengikuti harga pasar.
This is how it works, seperti di negara2 maju:
Ketika harga minyak dunia tinggi, harga BBM akan naik, jika karenanya penduduk mengurangi pemakaian BBM, total konsumsi BBM negara itu akan berkurang, dan harga BBM akan terkoreksi dan turun karena demand berkurang sementara supply tetap.
Dan ketika harga minyak dunia turun, harga BBM pun ikut turun lagi dan penduduk dapat menambah pemakaian BBM tanpa menyebabkan lonjakan harga.
Inilah sebabnya mengapa di negara lain kita tidak melihat 'demo kenaikan harga BBM' oleh penduduk pada perusahaan penjual BBM baik milik negara maupun swasta, karena mereka menyadari bahwa harga BBM sangat tergantung pada harga minyak dunia.
Terus naiknya harga minyak dunia akan mendorong penduduk menggunakan BBM dengan lebih efisien dan mulai menggunakan alternatif sumber2 tenaga lain seperti gas bumi, batu bara, panas bumi, sinar matahari, listrik, angin dan banyak lagi. Sebagian di antara mereka seperti sinar matahari tidak akan pernah habis dipakai.
Di Sri Langka misalnya, minyak tanah pun termasuk barang sangat mahal dan banyak penduduknya menggunakan kayu bakar. Kita tahu bahwa kayu bakar tidak akan pernah habis karena hutan dapat diperbaharui. Yang terjadi di Indonesia, sebaliknya. Bahkan penduduk miskin pun tidak mau repot menggunakan kayu bakar dan memilih minyak tanah. Karena harga minyak tanah disubsidi menjadi murah. Hal ini tidak sehat karena seiring dengan pertumbuhan jumlah penduduk, hanya akan menyebabkan semakin membengkaknya konsumsi minyak tanah. Padahal dengan terus meningkatnya konsumsi minyak dunia oleh penduduknya yang sudah lebih dari 6 milyar, harga minyak dunia akan semakin tinggi.
Dan jika harga minyak tanah atau bensin dinaikkan, penduduk negara ini akan berdemo dan mungkin membuat kerusuhan. Mereka tidak mau tahu bahwa minyak di dunia semakin langka dan mahal, mereka hanya mau minyak tanah dan bensin semurah mungkin, kalau bisa gratis.
Padahal penduduk di negara lain sudah banyak yang 'sadar energi' dan membantu negara menghemat konsumsi minyak, seperti yang kita lihat di Thailand misalnya.
Maaf jika sudah out topic, nich.
Last edited by conan on Wed Apr 13, 2005 5:24, edited 1 time in total.
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conan
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Herry
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Ya emang sekarang udah saatnya beralih ke hybrid neh, so biar bensin naik 100% juga no problem. Karena hybrid luar biasa iritnya.
Untuk mobil hybrid kayaknya kita harus iri dgn Thailand neh dimana mobil hybrid disana udah mulai banyak dijual dan lagi naik daun.
Kayaknya Thailand adalah negara ke 2 setelah Jepang (di Asia) yg mengimplementasikan hybrid didunia otomotif. Yang udah dijual di Thailand adalah:
Toyota Alphard Hybrid 2.4 L harga 3.35 million baht.
Toyota Alphard Hybrid V6 version harga 3.94 million baht.
Toyota Estima Hybrid 2.4 L harga 3.49 million baht.
Dan bagusnya pemerintah Thailand sangat mendukung program green car dgn memberikan insentif tax 10% untuk mobil hybrid dibawah 3.0 L.
Dan plan selanjutnya di Thailand, Lexus akan memasukkan SUV nya yg kesohor RX400h (h=hybrid), tapi sayang tidak dapat insentif tax 10% karena cc nya 3.3 L (lebih batas ketentuan 3.0 L).
Wah sori makin OOT neh...
Untuk mobil hybrid kayaknya kita harus iri dgn Thailand neh dimana mobil hybrid disana udah mulai banyak dijual dan lagi naik daun.
Kayaknya Thailand adalah negara ke 2 setelah Jepang (di Asia) yg mengimplementasikan hybrid didunia otomotif. Yang udah dijual di Thailand adalah:
Toyota Alphard Hybrid 2.4 L harga 3.35 million baht.
Toyota Alphard Hybrid V6 version harga 3.94 million baht.
Toyota Estima Hybrid 2.4 L harga 3.49 million baht.
Dan bagusnya pemerintah Thailand sangat mendukung program green car dgn memberikan insentif tax 10% untuk mobil hybrid dibawah 3.0 L.
Dan plan selanjutnya di Thailand, Lexus akan memasukkan SUV nya yg kesohor RX400h (h=hybrid), tapi sayang tidak dapat insentif tax 10% karena cc nya 3.3 L (lebih batas ketentuan 3.0 L).
Wah sori makin OOT neh...
Live as if you were to die tomorrow.
Learn as if you were to live forever.
Learn as if you were to live forever.
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conan
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mpoezz
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szli
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Bung Conan, why U say I like that ?
Bukan saya sempit atau apa. Kemarin saya baru isi lagi Pertamax full tank.
Masa anda tidak tau orang di negeri sini. Tapi U can't blame them. Makan saja susah, kenaikan BBM bisa akibat bahan pokok harganya naik lagi ! Mereka mana bisa tahan !
Dan jangan lupa bung, di negara lain penduduk miskinnya ngak sebanyak di Indonesia. Istilah rakyatnya lebih kenyang dan sejahtera. Naik BBM, silahkan.
Tapi orang Indo yang tiap hari gali lobang tutup lobang, mereka tidak ada mood untuk pikirkan the noble cause of fuel economics dan hemat negara. Yang mereka tau uang rakyat sering di korupsi, dan tiap hari mereka lapar ! Anak ngak bisa sekolah !
So U got to appreciate the difference between the condition of the Indonesian people compared to even say just Thailand.
Bukan saya sempit atau apa. Kemarin saya baru isi lagi Pertamax full tank.
Masa anda tidak tau orang di negeri sini. Tapi U can't blame them. Makan saja susah, kenaikan BBM bisa akibat bahan pokok harganya naik lagi ! Mereka mana bisa tahan !
Dan jangan lupa bung, di negara lain penduduk miskinnya ngak sebanyak di Indonesia. Istilah rakyatnya lebih kenyang dan sejahtera. Naik BBM, silahkan.
Tapi orang Indo yang tiap hari gali lobang tutup lobang, mereka tidak ada mood untuk pikirkan the noble cause of fuel economics dan hemat negara. Yang mereka tau uang rakyat sering di korupsi, dan tiap hari mereka lapar ! Anak ngak bisa sekolah !
So U got to appreciate the difference between the condition of the Indonesian people compared to even say just Thailand.
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Joe_Black
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Masalah subsidi BBM ini memang topik yang kontroversial. Disatu sisi pemerintah berusaha mempolarisasikan bahwa subsidi BBM hanya untuk orang 'mampu' seperti diiklankan oleh Mat Solar dan Freedom Institute, bahkan dalam salah satu tayangan di TV swasta, selebriti politik berinisial AM yang juga jubir presiden menyatakan bahwa ibu tua di daerah terpencil tidak ikut menikmati subsidi BBM karena dia masak pake kayu bakar.
Disisi lain, kita lihat kenyataannya bahwa akibat kenaikan BBM ini berpengaruh global terhadap pemakai langsung maupun tidak langsungnya (ibu tua yang digambarkan diatas adalah pemakai tidak langsung) karena efek dominonya pada harga barang dan jasa, belum lagi ulah para oportunis yang memanfaatkan kenaikan BBM ini sebagai legitimasi menaikkan tarif untuk mendapat keuntungan yang lebih besar.
Kata "subsidi" sendiri masih bisa diperdebatkan, apakah benar pemerintah mensubsidi BBM ?
Tidak transparannya ongkos produksi BBM dalam negeri menyebabkan kita memakai patokan harga di luar negeri. Di luar negeri mungkin saja lebih mahal karena minyak harus di impor, dlsb sedangkan Indonesia adalah exportir minyak (anggota OPEC), walaupun hampir jadi importir juga (cuma punya kelebihan 30.000 bpd). Mungkin saja ongkos produksi BBM kita dibawah Rp 1,800. Memakai analisis Kwik Kian Gie (KKG), minyak itu ada di perut bumi kita jadi pada dasarnya kita hanya membayar ongkos explorasi, exploitasi, refinery dan transport (serta mungkin tax, cost recovery oil co, dll ) dan hitungan KKG harga BBM harusnya cukup murah. Walau KKG menggunakan hitungan kasar tapi yang mau ditonjolkan adalah sebenarnya pemerintah tidak mensubsidi tapi melakukan tugasnya sebagai penyelenggara negara untuk kemakmuran rakyat. Yang dihitung sekian puluh triliun adalah potensi keuntungan yang mungkin didapat kalo BBM itu dijual di luar negeri.
Kalau dianalogikan dengan Singapore yang membeli air dari Malaysia (ini beda komoditi tapi mudah2an bisa jadi example ), harga air di Singapore pasti lebih mahal dari Malaysia, tapi pemerintah Malaysia tidak lantas menaikkan harga air di Malaysia karena merasa telah melakukan subsidi dalam negeri.
Saya pikir ini tidak OOT. Kita kan sedang membicarakan 'makanan' otomotif yang harganya naik terus.
Saya sempat berpikir, dulu pemerintah sempat mengambangkan harga BBM mengikuti MIPS. Sekarang apa masih demikian ya ?
Disisi lain, kita lihat kenyataannya bahwa akibat kenaikan BBM ini berpengaruh global terhadap pemakai langsung maupun tidak langsungnya (ibu tua yang digambarkan diatas adalah pemakai tidak langsung) karena efek dominonya pada harga barang dan jasa, belum lagi ulah para oportunis yang memanfaatkan kenaikan BBM ini sebagai legitimasi menaikkan tarif untuk mendapat keuntungan yang lebih besar.
Kata "subsidi" sendiri masih bisa diperdebatkan, apakah benar pemerintah mensubsidi BBM ?
Tidak transparannya ongkos produksi BBM dalam negeri menyebabkan kita memakai patokan harga di luar negeri. Di luar negeri mungkin saja lebih mahal karena minyak harus di impor, dlsb sedangkan Indonesia adalah exportir minyak (anggota OPEC), walaupun hampir jadi importir juga (cuma punya kelebihan 30.000 bpd). Mungkin saja ongkos produksi BBM kita dibawah Rp 1,800. Memakai analisis Kwik Kian Gie (KKG), minyak itu ada di perut bumi kita jadi pada dasarnya kita hanya membayar ongkos explorasi, exploitasi, refinery dan transport (serta mungkin tax, cost recovery oil co, dll ) dan hitungan KKG harga BBM harusnya cukup murah. Walau KKG menggunakan hitungan kasar tapi yang mau ditonjolkan adalah sebenarnya pemerintah tidak mensubsidi tapi melakukan tugasnya sebagai penyelenggara negara untuk kemakmuran rakyat. Yang dihitung sekian puluh triliun adalah potensi keuntungan yang mungkin didapat kalo BBM itu dijual di luar negeri.
Kalau dianalogikan dengan Singapore yang membeli air dari Malaysia (ini beda komoditi tapi mudah2an bisa jadi example ), harga air di Singapore pasti lebih mahal dari Malaysia, tapi pemerintah Malaysia tidak lantas menaikkan harga air di Malaysia karena merasa telah melakukan subsidi dalam negeri.
Saya pikir ini tidak OOT. Kita kan sedang membicarakan 'makanan' otomotif yang harganya naik terus.
Saya sempat berpikir, dulu pemerintah sempat mengambangkan harga BBM mengikuti MIPS. Sekarang apa masih demikian ya ?
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szli
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Mungkin di masa depan saya akan ambil jalan tengah. Artinya misalnya untuk tiap 3-4 kali isi Premium saya akan sekali isi Pertamax. Katanya Pertamax lebih banyak detergentnya juga, supaya bisa flush my engine system with better fuel now and then.
Sekarang lagi coba lagi Pertamax. Mau hitung lagi sebenernya beda berapa fuel rationya.
Memang long term pakai Pertamax lebih peace of mind, tapi hemat 3 juta setahun juga lumayan ! Its a bit of mental torture sometimes. Pertamax is the safest fuel for long term, tapi harga double !
At least like my relative said, kemarin isi Pertamax tidak perlu antri ! Langsung go in, drink gas, go out ! Very fast ! Those 2 bensin lagi sepi banget !
Sekarang lagi coba lagi Pertamax. Mau hitung lagi sebenernya beda berapa fuel rationya.
Memang long term pakai Pertamax lebih peace of mind, tapi hemat 3 juta setahun juga lumayan ! Its a bit of mental torture sometimes. Pertamax is the safest fuel for long term, tapi harga double !
At least like my relative said, kemarin isi Pertamax tidak perlu antri ! Langsung go in, drink gas, go out ! Very fast ! Those 2 bensin lagi sepi banget !
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szli
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conan
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Anda yang lupa, bung Szli. Contoh Sri Lanka yang aku sebut, penduduknya lebih miskin daripada disini. Yet, mereka bersedia pakai kayu bakar untuk memasak makanan sehari-hari, karena mereka tahu bahwa minyak bakar mahal, dan bahwa bahan bakar minyak lebih baik digunakan untuk sarana transportasi, karena bus tidak bisa diisi kayu bakar!szli wrote:Dan jangan lupa bung, di negara lain penduduk miskinnya ngak sebanyak di Indonesia. Istilah rakyatnya lebih kenyang dan sejahtera. Naik BBM, silahkan.
Coba pikirkan, bung Szli. Bahkan penduduk Thailand saja yang pendapatan per kapitanya jauh di atas Indo, mau melakukan langkah2 membantu negara dalam menghemat bahan bakar minyak untuk kepentingan bersama.szli wrote:So U got to appreciate the difference between the condition of the Indonesian people compared to even say just Thailand.
Kapan kita pernah melihat kesadaran seperti ini dilakukan penduduk Indon?
Seperti contoh Sri Lanka dan juga Thailand, semakin membuktikan, bahwa perbedaan utama antara mereka dan penduduk Indo bukan terletak pada kondisi, tapi mentality-nya, kesadarannya, kebijaksanaannya!
Bung Joe_Black, sebenarnya aku sudah cukup fed up membahas hal ini, tapi pandangan Pak Kwik itu keliru dan belum lama ini beliau sendiri telah mengakuinya di tulisannya di harian Kompas.
Jika Anda ada waktu, dan masih tertarik pada masalah ini, may I recommend you to go to this thread :
http://www.serayamotor.com/diskusi/viewtopic.php?t=1675
Di thread ini rekan-rekan yang lain juga sudah memberikan pendapat tentang hal ini.
